Israeli PM vows retaliation.

Israeli PM vows retaliation against Palestinian militants following suicide bombing at market.

He must have missed the fact that the suicide bomber is already dead.

When will the cycle of violence stop?

Guess the bigger man is the one that does not throw the punch.

In any case then they start throwing nuclear punches we will all feel the pain.

The Israeli PM might that think that the sucide bomber had someone help him make the bomb.

I think you'll find that most of these politicians and world leaders etc suffer from a condition which I like to call "pathological narcissism". Main symptoms include:

- issuing pompous statements

- thinking that the world really cares about what they say and do

- getting involved in silly spats with other politicians and diplomats

- hogging the news

Do not hesitate to ask me more about this condition, if it interests you.

Professor Barney Gumble

Right !

So lets escalate the violence.  Let's retaliate.

It's certainly worked well as a strategy so far.

NOT.

What is the solution? 

The reported statement from the Iranian president states thats we all "in the west" have a role to play in this as we set up the Zionist state (maybe not you jackandjill).

My feelings are once this guy manages to turn the middle east into a nuclear wasteland, he will turn his weapons on the UK and the USA; hence turn France is to wasteland as well.

Why the the Isreali PM not wipe Iran of the map first?  They already have 200 warheads?

Why is the Iranian anti Israel?  Does he really care about the palestinians?

What is the link?

OAK said: The link is probably foreign interference in the region which goes back a long way.

- not 100% sure.

OAK - most the stuff you say is true.  In anycase lots of wrong was done, by all sides.  Iran was always far out of the question.  I remember the Arab states gave the Palestians advice to leave Israel. Iran is not an Arab state. 

In anycase the Israeli and Iranian history in my mind was always separate.

Still not sure if that this the link between Iran, Palestnians and Isreal.  A book might be involved?

Don't know which those Arab states were that gave Palestinians advice to leave, or otherwise.  I bet they weren't in any way elected representatives of the Palestinian people, weren't Palestinians and probably weren't even democratically elected leaders of their own people, so their 'voice' probably didn't carry much moral weight.  And I don't think the Palestinians were consulted when Israel was created.  Why ?  Or rather why not ?  So if there are grievances there are also reasons.  The British really did not have any morally defensible right to set up a state for the Jews in a country which was not theirs. 

As for the question of Iran being an Arabic country, or not, that really isn't relevant in this context.  It's part of the Middle East, it was a playground for Western Powers in the great game.  So at least part of the responsability for the mess we can now all see lies with the Western world.

You wanted a link ?  The link, as far as I can tell, has been callous interference in other people's countries, with no regard for the consequences.  The motive was profit and power.  The mind-set was colonial.  Iraq, Saddam, the Gulf Wars are just more chapters in an ugly story.

I think there was the grand son of some American President who wrote a book about his role in the foisting of the Shah on the Iranian population.  I believe BP bought up all the copies in circulation.  However, can't remember his name.  You could google it.

link:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4540.htm

Hi Oak, Was going to reply big by it sounded too much like a lecture, sorry.

Arab people are a race. The people of Iran are of persians.

Arabic is a language of the Arab people. Iranians speak Farsi.

Iran only got involved with Isreal in the Lebanon, with the Hezbullah (party of god).  The persians never used to care about the palestinians.

Why should Iran care about Isreal? 

Didn't think the problems in the Middle East were racial.  Thought it was all about politics and self-determination.  So I wasn't particularly concerned about the fact that the Iranians are Persians and not Arabs.  They are all Muslims and obviously there is a sense of solidarity between these people.  Or at least a sense of being wronged by a common enemy. 

Iran has a problem with Western interference in the Middle East and Israel is seen as the biggest symbol of that.

They obviously DO care about Israel, hence recent statements.

Nevertheless, my post was about threatened retaliation by Sharon against the Palestinians. 

The whole situation seems to have degenerated to such an extent that I don't know who we are supposed to be watching any more.

Certainly Sharon has a huge responsibility for the increased tension and violence in the Middle East.  They say he is playing to his electorate, but the Israelis must surely be fed up with having someone so intransigent in power.  He certainly hasn't helped calm the situation down at all.

As for Iran, well I don't know if it has all that much to do with Israel and the Palestinian question.

I don't think that was the point of the original post. 

I get the impression that the Israelis take the view that, given the American carte blanche support, they can do whatever they want.  So UN resolutions against Israel are blocked, arms and money pour in and a wall is being built which is supposed to contain the violence.  I doubt it will go anyway to achieving that.

Sharon has been a genius at manipulating public opinion in Israel (and yes I have met Israelis and yes I do know Palestinians) but hasn't done very much to pursue peace. 

tpotf_2005 obviously you have spent time in the area, where do you stand on the whole issue?  And why?

HI Jackandjill: planned to give a detailed reply, do not have enough time.  My plan would be something like this:

1) Everyone in the Middle East is forced to say this statement five times a day.  "As I truly love God and as God made everything, I love all of the creatures he made." this should be done for a good few generations.

2) The only real democracy between Turkey and India is Israel.   All the other nations from Morocco to Pakistan are run by a bunch of power crazy mad men.  Most of them are stuck between appeasing the islamists, while ensuring not being kicked out of power by the same madmen.

There is no free speech, the only thing that grows in these countries is poverty and the population.  I would try to somehow force all these nations to find a stead course towards a secular democracy.  In the original Islamic texts, there is not one statement that defines how a country should be ruled.  The Imams, dictators and kings create myths etc, to ensure they stay in power and/or force what they believe to be the will of God will onto the people.  In fact they propagate hate for other faiths that is why majority Muslim Iran is so vocal against a secular democratic Jewish majority Israel.  That is why 2 British Muslims have to date acted as suicide bombers in Israel.

More secular democracies are the only solution for our safety in London, Paris, Madrid, Nice, Berlin, etc.

3) Most Israelis are feed up of the violence and cannot wait to be able to go shopping without fearing the loss of limbs.  They have left Gaza and the Lebanon; they will also slowly do this from the West bank and Golan Heights. 

Israel is a democracy; free people normally look for peace, even Sharon a hardcore right winger, faced the truth and left Gaza. 

4) The Palestinians need to convince Hamas, to join a single non-violent group working for a Palestinian state.  Since Gaza was given back, what was the peace dividend for Sharon to show to the Israelis – NOTHING. 

As long as you live by the sword, die by the sword.  The rate at which the Muslim world is developing technologically the non-Muslim swords will always be mightier.  What do the Palestinians really want?   Personal contact with them makes me think their final goal is to take the seat of the oppressor.

It is hard to imagine that even when Israel rights all of it wrongs, the region will leave in peace.   Anyone remember what happened at Camp David between Clinton, Arafat and Peres?

Skipper1:  Simple question, are you sure it is the Christian people you have to fear?  I think Islam has to fear Democracy and free speech.  Your posting are made up by some zealots that realize you are sitting on top of a mountain made up of a deck of cards. 

If only the press in the Islamic world was free to challenge the Islamic zealots without death threats, as the Secular democratic press can challenge the religious zealots in the west?   Within three generations there would not be single Muslim women left in the world.

what it meens to suizide your self with 18 years?

have anyone of you been in palestine to live real life in dessert of hopeless

ideas.

palestine a big prison lead by some type of people and countrys involved using this opportuninty to excuse there intention to keep or get hold of oilreserve in rest of world.

new's by Mr World Father Bush "whe figth war in the name of god"

if i have been god i send this father's for 6 month in this dessert to see what is left from them after!!!!

Hi MikeP, some more light or darkness

The old white racist South African government did not give the black South African nationals the same rights as the white.

Today the (20% muslim) Arab Israeli nationals have the same as all the other Israelis.  For me this is democratic.

The problem is the palestinians and the state of Israel.

Secondly: "The Israelis and the Arabs are all aggressive warmongers. In my view the Israelis are somewhat worse and the establishment of the state of Israel was the root cause of it all. "

Do you know how Eygpt and Syria treats the palestines?  They are all bad as each other.  At least with Israel we can hope that a Peres type government will come back into power and start the peace process again. For Eygpt and Syria we have no hope.

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Some for food for thought:

Why would some British nationals travel to Israel and commit mass murder?   What is the connection are we lost in some media spin?

What is the link?